Friday, December 5, 2008

Our Rights!

Greetings,

For our final class blog, please consider the following set of questions and first respond any or all parts:

Do all human beings have fundamental rights, and if so then what are our rights and how should we protect them?

Should the government ensure that our ‘fundamental rights’ are protected, or can they leave it up to workers and employers to give the average citizen enough money and benefits to enjoy these 'rights?'

Since employees consent to working contracts, should they alone be responsible to make the best possible decisions that would cover their fundamental rights? Why or why not?



Next, please read the excerpted article below and then post a second response to any of the above questions. You may also comment on your classmate's posts as you wish.

Thank you!

Florence

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“Intrinsic worth, consent, and coercion in economic contexts.”
By Maureen O'Danu
http://odanu.livejournal.com/320684.html Nov. 14th, 2007 at 1:01 PM

I think that perhaps the most fundamental concept in liberalism (or progressivism) is that human life has intrinsic value beyond whatever economic goods or public goods an individual contributes to the world. A natural corellary of this is that since human life has intrinsic value, those things which sustain human life are rights, not privileges. These rights exist in cultural and local contexts, but they can be broken down pretty easily into those things in the bottom rung or two of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Humans, in this conception, have the right to breatheable air, food, drinkable water, the ability to bathe and void bladder and bowel in a sanitary manner, access to preventative, maintenance, and emergency health care, and a right to housing and body coverings that protect them from the elements. Further, humans have a right to live unmolested by violent and chaotic environments, and to be educated to the standards of their societies. Finally humans have the right to engage in alliances with other humans for mutual benefit , mate and have offspring or choose not to. Note that, unlike the libertarian concept of rights, most of these are positive rights. Also note that most human societies throughout time, including modern times, grant these rights without question to children, elders, and (to varying degrees) many disabled persons. These rights were implied, but not stated, in the US constitution's preamble, under the cover of "promoting the general welfare". Even earlier, in the Declaration of Independence, Jefferson called it "the pursuit of happiness". Maslow's work was not known then, but it has long been a common conception that in order for a human to pursue or obtain happiness, those needs essential to the continuation of life need to be fulfilled. (Edited to fix rather embarrassing brain fart)

It is only when dealing with able bodied adults (sometimes culturally limited to men) that these rights are not generally assumed. The libertarian stance is that at this point (at least) there is no responsibility of society (in the form of government, even self-selected governments) to ensure these rights, as employment contracts stand on their own to support these rights, and anyone who is not willing (or able) to work forfeits these rights so long as "unable" doesn't include a definition of long term disability. Furthermore, the libertarian stance is that there is no responsibility of an employer to guarantee wages and/or benefits sufficient for the employee to be able to obtain these positive rights in the unfettered market, even when the employee works "full time" or even more than full time. This stance clearly supports a libertarian idea that humans do not have intrinsic worth, but only economic and/or public worth -- that if the market is such that some people are unable to meet the basic needs of humanity while working, it is incumbent upon the individual alone to make some change to himself or his immediate environment (i.e. obtaining more education, doubling up in inexpensive apartments, switching from healthier foods to less expensive but less healthy foods, etc.) in order to meet those basic needs.

In fact, the concepts of "worthy" versus "unworthy" poor have a long political and social history. Interestingly, those who have committed crimes and are sentenced to incarceration are granted, in this sense, more rights than those who cannot obtain a job that pays sufficiently well to meet basic human needs. The libertarian idea of rights is that the employer's right to make profits supercedes the employee's right to be able to survive on the wages offered. A common libertarian defense to this view is that the employee "consents" to the employment contract, and therefore the employer has no further obligation. What is left out of this equation, however, are the coercive effects of the possibilities of starvation, homelessness, and loss of health care access. The cumulative effects of these coercions in the employment market in fact make the employer/employee contract extremely coercive, particularly in cases where geography, incomplete information, or monopolistic or oligarchic situations limit employment choices.

Unions to some extent, when powerful, can mitigate this coercion and create a much more just power structure between employer and employee. It is partially for this reason that corporatists have consistently and continually reviled unions and similar (older) concepts such as guilds, and worked to undermine their power through both legal and exta-legal measures. Corporate "personhood" where the individual liability for illegal decisions made by people in corporations is diffused and weakened, exacerbates the power imbalance, as does the differing ability for corporations and their financiers to contribute to political dialogue as compared to those who work for salaries or hourly wages.

Modern economics likes to treat most humans as replaceable cogs in the free market machine, granting only entrepreneurs, financiers, and corporate leaders actual personhood and "free choice". The rest of us poor slobs are told that we have free choice while one choice after another is taken away by corporate decisions and corporate-driven governmental decisions beyond our control. We are manipulated by corporate driven media, mislead by corporate owned politicians, and mis-used by the corporations themselves, whose loyalty to their stockholders greatly exceeds their loyalty to those who make those stock options possible. Some poor slobs even believe the propaganda, and see themselves as actual or soon to be elites in this new world order. This is, of course, a belief that is encouraged by the elite, if only for their own amusement.

48 comments:

michaelpowell said...

I think that all humans have fundamental rights.
we should protect our rights by understanding the law of our society.

elliminatus said...

"This is, of course, a belief that is encouraged by the elite, if only for their own amusement. " I completely disagree that the rich/elite have somehow tricked us into believing that we have a chance to achieve that we do not. I personally think that everyone has certain enaliable rights. The goverment should not "give the average citizen enough money and benefits to enjoy these 'rights?'" Because its up to every individual to make their own money. The possibility of going to any university is open to everyone so there is fairness in the fact that if you put enough hard work into anything you can achieve whatever your goal was. Our rights have been listed for us " the pursuit of hapiness" however it is our legal system that keeps us in check with reality so that we dont try to do anything crazy to follow that persuit. I believe we are given the proper rights and our goverment protects them properly,

elliminatus said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
elliminatus said...

I agree with michel.

KatelynRibbe said...

1. I believe that all human beings have fundamental rights. They include being able to make your own decisions, like what you want to do with your life. We need to protect these by not standing up for ourselves.
2. I think the government needs to protect our rights to a certain extent because otherwise our employers may try to take advantage of us.
3. Yes, I think employees should take it upon themselves to make the best decisions that would cover their fundamental rights. Even though they consent to working contracts it's still up to them to make their own decisions.

Brandon said...

All Humans have right beacuse for example we all make law etc. but yes we should have and proctect our rights by intenting to develop new ideas for new laws that would help us with our fundametal rights...

GLamkin said...

"In fact, the concepts of "worthy" versus "unworthy" poor have a long political and social history. Interestingly, those who have committed crimes and are sentenced to incarceration are granted, in this sense, more rights than those who cannot obtain a job that pays sufficiently well to meet basic human needs. The libertarian idea of rights is that the employer's right to make profits supercedes the employee's right to be able to survive on the wages offered." Due to laws that do not permit an employer to give a wage below minumum wage there is a standard though extremely difficult to live off of this wage it is still a method of not abusing employees. Also in the Declaration of Independence all men are created equal so there is no unworthy vs. worthy in America at least. Despite the fact that convicts are less likely to obtain a job.

AllisonDaigle said...

All human beings have fundamental rights until they commit an act that forces their rights to be taken away. All human's should protect their rights through understanding our government. Unfortunately, citizens of our country don't always keep up with what is going on within our government, so many aren't aware of their rights and how to protect them.

Jorge S said...

I think that all humans have fundamental rights. That is why we have the bill of rights and our constitution, to protect the rights that have been given to us because we are American citizens. Our rights are also protected by our constitution. To protect them even more, we can understand what our rights are and how to practice them correctly.

pkrol said...

All human beings have fundamental rights and these rights should be protected.

Tzuridis said...

Do all human beings have fundamental rights, and if so then what are our rights and how should we protect them?

Yes, every human being has human rights, the ones stated by Maslow are specific and mostly positive. The rights are "have the right to breatheable air, food, drinkable water, the ability to bathe and void bladder and bowel in a sanitary manner, access to preventative, maintenance, and emergency health care, and a right to housing and body coverings that protect them from the elements. Further, humans have a right to live unmolested by violent and chaotic environments, and to be educated to the standards of their societies. Finally humans have the right to engage in alliances with other humans for mutual benefit , mate and have offspring or choose not to." I strongly agree with all these rights. Our governments protect our rights, well atleast most of them.

Should the government ensure that our ‘fundamental rights’ are protected, or can they leave it up to workers and employers to give the average citizen enough money and benefits to enjoy these 'rights?'

In capitalist society employeers have the right to do so with their employees, however employees also have right not usually posted though except for in unions. There is plenty of workers rights and the government does go to a significant extent to protect them.

Since employees consent to working contracts, should they alone be responsible to make the best possible decisions that would cover their fundamental rights? Why or why not?

Yes, in capitalist society no one has to look after one another, it may look dark in a sense and is the major reason communist countries have extreme nationalism, however in American society you must be able to make decisions for your self atleast financially. To sustain your rights as an individual the only possible way to survive in our society you must unfortunatly fight back.

KatelynRibbe said...

All humans have fundamental rights and we need to protect them by knowing that the laws we have are there for a reason. Our rights include having drinkable water, edible food, and shelter. I think to a certain extent the government should protect these rights but it is ultimately up to the individual to provide for themselves.

elmo212121 said...

I think that all humans do have fundamental rights and it is up to our government to protect these rights, if they want to keep the peace. In places where the government does not protect human rights, they are often war-zone like

Brandon said...

I defenetly agreed with allison beacuse many citizens of our country don't always keep up with what is going on within our government, alot of them aren't aware of their rights and how to protect them. and in my opinion they should start getting aware of there human rights.

will arias said...

All human beings have fundamental rights. We also have laws that we have to live by. Im my opinion these laws are used to protect our fundamental rights in the sense that anyone who interfears with them gets punished.

Chelsea Brooks said...

I agree with Jorge. They made the bill of rights for a reason and that is to protect our fundamental rights as humans. If our rights didn't mean anything or if we didn't have any, then the founders of this country wouldn't have bothered to make them protected.

Nhut said...

I think once you sign a working contracts you are limited to your fundamental rights and even so you should at least make good decisions for the future.

cookie said...

Do all human beings have fundamental rights, and if so then what are our rights and how should we protect them?

I think all humans should have fundamental rights but they are not giving to humans. I think a way we could protect them is being able to speak up for yourself and not letting people walk all over you.

GLamkin said...

"Modern economics likes to treat most humans as replaceable cogs in the free market machine, granting only entrepreneurs, financiers, and corporate leaders actual personhood and "free choice"." As stated in the Declaration all men are created equal and everyone has a free choices. Wealth only provides more leverage in certain circumstances. Noone is more replaceable than anyone else.

Tzuridis said...

Prisons are for criminals thats why their rights are controlled and shown abruptly for law sake, I am amazed to believe someone thinks they have more rights, it just seems like our rights are not seen as much in our society as it is in prison. We have freedom rights their rights are controlled.

cookie said...

i agree with khelmon the goverment has to protect us be we as he people need to pick the right person to do the job.

michaelpowell said...

After reading the article I think that the protcetion of our rights should be maintained by workers and employers.

will arias said...

In responce to michael powell, I also beleive that we as human beings should understand the law of our society. By doing so maybe there will be more peace on earth. We wouldnt have as many negative issues affecting us today.

cookie said...

i totally agree with will

Megan said...

I think we do have fundamental rights and having a complete understanding of the laws and what they have to offer will make it much easier to protect ourselves.

will arias said...

Good Point Ted!

Brandon said...

If someone have a job there boss should understand their rights and if they dont they should quick or in other worlds proctect them.

AllisonDaigle said...

I believe that 'fundamental rights' should not be left up to the employers and workers, butleft up to the government, instead. Although the government is known for often violating people's rights, the businesses and corporations would completely demolish rights for the people if it were left up to them. The CEO's and president's of huge companies only care about the revenue their bringing in, and nothing else. They would put human rights on the backburner and focus more on the money in their pockets. We need to work with our government and stay on their decisions to ensure basic rights for all people.

Brandon said...

Good Point Ted......

michaelpowell said...

A quote "Humans, in this conception, have the right to breatheable air, food, drinkable water, the ability to bathe and void bladder and bowel in a sanitary manner, access to preventative, maintenance, and emergency health care, and a right to housing and body coverings that protect them from the elements."
all humans should alwys have the ability to have the right to do what is needed to maintain a healthy life. To void bladder and bowel in a sanitary manner can go in both ways.

pkrol said...

After reading the article I believe that we have rights but, these rights can also be taken away. Our employers should also be there to ensure that are rights are not being broken.

Jorge S said...

The libertarian stance is that at this point (at least) there is no responsibility of society (in the form of government, even self-selected governments) to ensure these rights

The government doesnt have the responsibilty to ensure our rights?

Isn't the point of our government to represent what the people want? And because we are the people, we are society, dont we have the right to ensure our own rights?

I think that there is a lot of grey area, people don't know their rights and misinterpret them. This needs to change before America can change for the better.

Man Sze said...

We should have intrinsic worth, as we shouldn't using Economic and financial prospective to explain our value. Our right doesn't depends on our market value, as there are many thing important than money.
As Maslow's hierarchy of needs said that, we should not continuously stay on the material stage. We should go to upper stage to seek others cherish thing.
So, our right shouldn't only limited into materialism but also something toward human value.

ne ne said...

yes, all humans do have fundamental rights. we should and can protect them by not abusing them and taking advantage.

Chelsea Brooks said...

After reading the article, I still believe that people should have rights. Employers shouldnt try and make their employees work for less and in bad conditions, just so that they can make a profit. Everyone is equal. This reminds me of how jobs are being outsourced to places like India or China because people will work for less and work possibly in poorer conditions. I believe that people, (Americans, Indians, everyone etc.), should be treated the same.

ne ne said...

No, i also beleive that the government should have some part in helping the average citizenhave enough money and benefits to enjoy their rights.

cchau said...

I concur along side Allison and the author. We, the people, all have rights that God chose to gave us. Most of us are born assuming we are going to be good citizens. Until we become evil, that righteous privledege is taken away.

I do not think anybody should rely on society to aid their rights. An example is the economy right now. Jobs and pay salary are greatly impacted as they are in a crisis.
Why would a top-dog entrepeneur need to worry about someone else below him? Isn't it enough that he is in charge of the complicated buisness, and maybe the family his/her own?

Everyone has the right and probably the privledge to choose their way of living. Because they were lazy and did not commit to a hard working background, they now cannot afford the luxurious. It is their own option if they should find something not so highclass but instead should find something more affordable to them.

chris

Tzuridis said...

"This is, of course, a belief that is encouraged by the elite, if only for their own amusement. " I completely disagree that the rich/elite have somehow tricked us into believing that we have a chance to achieve that we do not.

I agree they did impose an ideal that makes us seem insuperior however an easy way to overcome many employer issues is entrepeneurship or working for yourself, so it is obtainable.

ne ne said...

yes, if people want their rights to be protected you need to make sure you make good responsible desisions

Man Sze said...

According to what GLamkin said, there are still many country didnt set up the minimum wage and workers were living in difficulties.
Also, even if government set up the law to protect employee, there are still many illegal transaction the society. In order to get a job, people also have no choice or no way to negotiate with employer.

elmo212121 said...

I agree wit the post. All people have rights. Poor people and rich people alike and it is up to the governmment to make sure that these rights are protected. In modern day society however it seems like only the rich and powerful people have all the freedom while the working and lower class people are told that they have freedom while corporations slowly take them away

Nhut said...

I agree to what the last paragraph had to say because even though many bigger corporate said we have rights we actually don't when we are facing with a problem. Some corporate only see us as tools to make money or stepping stone. From their eyes we are nobody because we dont have money like they do.

Jowelzzz said...

Not all humas have fundamental rights in this world, but those who do feel that it is very important to protect them because without them things will not work the same. Some of the rights are customs, beliefs, or oarticular society or polity. also legal rights, civil rights. The gov should do his/her best to protect our rights that make this wonderful country run

Man Sze said...

i agree with what Nhut said, "once you sign a working contracts you are limited to your fundamental rights ". Though it sounds terrible, it is truth. We can just hope that we choose a right boss.

JeanSalomon_cRw said...

I agree with kaitlyn's ribs on the comment that she made. Her statement actually completes my first comment since I did not bring to point on how and why the Gov't should protect our rights

Megan said...

After reading this article my opinion really didnt change. However, I do agree with what Nhut had to say on some level. Because sometimes it might feel as if we are being taken advantage of.Its wrong for us to even feel this way. I personally believe that no matter what we all should be provided with the same rights and opportunites.

JeanSalomon_cRw said...

I believe all human beings have fundamental rights. It is stated in our declarration of independance that we are all created equal and that we are endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness
both documents our declaration of independance and our constitution bares the laws that protects our rights.
broadly speaking the universal declaration of human rights made by the United nations emphasizes our writes in this world.

Jowelzzz said...

O'Danu gives the reader a reminder of all the freedom that we have today, which were impossible to imagine decades ago. She also reminds us of how things are changing very rapidly and if we don't capitalize it will be haunt us forever!